Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the official transcript of a July 26, 2023 hearing held by the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Accountability's Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs. The hearing was titled "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena: Implications on National Security, Public Safety, and Government Transparency." Ryan Graves, David Grusch and retired Commander David Fravor testified. Members pressed for transparency and whistleblower protections, and Graves described a near miss involving a dark cube inside a clear sphere.
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31 Mr. GRUSCH. It is a misnomer that there is anything actually above top secret. Executive Order 13526 delineates the classifica- tion levels. Mr. GAETZ. Right. But I draw upon that because we can have ac- cess to those programs and so the notion that we are not being given that access sort of defies our typical muscle memory here in Congress. Thank you, Mr. Burchett. I will yield back to you. Mr. BURCHETT. Thank you, Mr. Gaetz. Along those lines, Title 10—you may not know this or not, but Title 10 and Title 50 authorization they seem to say they are ineffi- cient. So, who gets to decide this, in your opinion, in the past? Mr. GRUSCH. It is a group of career senior executive officials. Mr. BURCHETT. OK. Are they government officials? Mr. GRUSCH. Both in and out. Mr. BURCHETT. Be what? Mr. GRUSCH. Both in and out of government and that is about as far as I can go there. Mr. BURCHETT. I got you. All right. Well, that leads to my next question. Which private corporations are directly involved in this program? How much taxpayer money has been invested in these programs, to your knowledge? I mean, we know—we audit the Pentagon every year and I have been here 5 years and they fail the daggum thing every year. Lose over a billion dollars a year, we think, and I was told the Depart- ment of Defense maybe 60 percent of their assets are unaccounted for, whatever the heck that means. In the public sector, you go to jail for that kind of crap. So, tell me. Mr. GRUSCH. Yes. I know when I am a dollar off on my DTS trav- el voucher I get hammered, but seems like it does not work the other way, right. Mr. BURCHETT. If you sell over—if you sell over $600 worth of stuff on Ebay now you get a call from the IRS. So, please, what corporations? Mr. GRUSCH. Yes. I do not know the specific metrics toward the end of your question. The specific corporations I did provide to the committees in specific divisions and I spent 11‡ hours with both intel committees. Mr. BURCHETT. OK. Has there been any—has there been an ac- tive U.S. Government disinformation campaign to deny the exist- ence of unidentified aerial phenomena and, if so, why? Mr. GRUSCH. I cannot go beyond what I have already espoused publicly about that. Mr. BURCHETT. OK. I have been told to ask you what that is and how to get it in the record. Mr. GRUSCH. Which—— Ms. LUNA. What you stated publicly in your interviews for the congressional Record. Mr. GRUSCH. If you reference my News Nation interview and I talked about a multi-decade, you know, campaign to disenfranchise public interest, basically. Ms. LUNA. Thank you. Mr. BURCHETT. I apologize, Mr. Chairman. I yield back negative 21 seconds.
Hearing transcript, cited by the archive. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 54 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.