Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the official transcript of a July 26, 2023 hearing held by the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Accountability's Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs. The hearing was titled "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena: Implications on National Security, Public Safety, and Government Transparency." Ryan Graves, David Grusch and retired Commander David Fravor testified. Members pressed for transparency and whistleblower protections, and Graves described a near miss involving a dark cube inside a clear sphere.
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23 when you threaten that flow—career path—a lot of people back off. But I am here to represent those people. So—— Mr. RASKIN. Mr. Fravor, what about you? What has your experi- ence been since you have come forward with your perspective on this? Commander FRAVOR. Actually, I have been treated very well and the six people that were involved, myself included, all of them have or will be retiring from the military as 05s, 06s, and all my friends that are very senior, three and four stars, I have talked to them. They believe. They understand there is a problem. But no, I was actually treated really well. Mr. RASKIN. And what is your general interpretation of these phenomena or what is your current thinking of trying to make sense of them? Commander FRAVOR. Well, I will say, you know, I am not like a UFO fanatic. It is not me. But I will tell you that what we saw with four sets of eyes over a 5-minute period still—there is noth- ing—we have nothing close to it. It was amazing to see. I told my buddy, I wanted to fly it. But that is—just an incredible technology. Mr. RASKIN. All right. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I yield back to you. Mr. GROTHMAN. Thanks. On to Ms. Luna. Ms. LUNA. Mr. Grusch, in speaking to you yesterday, I just want- ed to followup on Representative Raskin’s questions. In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues? Mr. GRUSCH. Yes, personally. Yes. Ms. LUNA. I just want everyone to note that he is coming forward in fear of his life to put in perspective if they were really not scared about this information coming out why would someone be intimi- dated like that. To your knowledge, are NHIs working with adversarial foreign governments in either technology exchange programs or back engi- neering programs? Mr. GRUSCH. I do not have data on that. I am not sure. Ms. LUNA. Have you heard or you had people come forward to present that evidence? Mr. GRUSCH. Not that particular evidence that you just espoused. Ms. LUNA. OK. On the 19th of April, Dr. Kirkpatrick, head of AARO, had said that he did not find any evidence of UAPs. You also stated that you had—in your interview that you briefed him on information that you were uncovering but that he did not fol- lowup with you. Were the items that you divulged to him pertinent to national security? Mr. GRUSCH. Yes. Him and I had a classified conversation in April 2022 before he took over AARO in July 2022 and I provided him some concerns I had. Ms. LUNA. Do you know why he might not have followed up with you? Mr. GRUSCH. Unfortunately, I cannot read his mind. I wish he did. I was happy to give sage counsel to him on where to look when he took the helm of AARO.
Hearing transcript, cited by the archive. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 54 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.