Official hearing transcript PDF (mirror)

34
U.S. Government with regard to UAPs, right, and so I am going to
get to that in a second.
But last week White House NSC spokesman, John Kirby, stated
that UAPs are having an impact on our training ranges and needs
to be treated as a legitimate issue. Do you concur with his state-
ments? And that is for each of you.
Mr. GRUSCH. Yes.
Mr. GRAVES. Yes.
Commander FRAVOR. Yes.
Mr. BIGGS. OK. Now, having said that, I am going to take you
to specific instances around the Phoenix Valley because that is
where I live.
In 1997, we had the famous Phoenix Lights case. I do not know
if any of you are familiar with that. There were two things that
went along with that and the explanation was military training
range off Luke and the Barry Goldwater range.
Do you know anything different other than the official expla-
nation of those lights?
Mr. GRUSCH. Only what is in the public vernacular about it. That
was outside the scope of my duties.
Mr. BIGGS. And if we wanted to—just my question along with my
colleague from New York, Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, if we wanted to find
out more about that where would we go to find the files and
where—and who would we address? I know you are going to tell
me we need to go to a SCIF so you can tell us in a SCIF.
Commander FRAVOR. I could potentially give you a vector on
that. That specific case I am not—I mean, I am familiar with it in
terms of public, but I can give you a vector in a closed environ-
ment. Yes.
Mr. BIGGS. That would be good. Thank you. So, if it is true that
UAPs are having an impact on training ranges and this Adminis-
tration considers it to be a legitimate issue what steps can Con-
gress take to address training range impacts? And I say that hav-
ing two very large training rages in my state.
And so, we will start with Mr. Graves and go on down the panel.
Mr. GRAVES. Some of the initial procedures have been imple-
mented such as within the United States Navy that have a Range
Fouler Report that gathers information from pilots. I understand
that a service-wide reporting mechanism is still pending.
However, that would be a great next step not only for gathering
information but for showing the troops that is an acceptable topic
and reducing the stigma.
Mr. BIGGS. OK. Please all of you continue.
Mr. GRUSCH. Yes. As a recipient of a lot of those training range
reports sometimes we only get contextual, kind of oral reporting. It
would be nice if they attached all sensor data and there is a system
in place that can handle multiple classifications of data, and that
is an issue with the F–35, right. That jet was never built to be an
ISR platform, and it is a pain in the butt to get that data off.
So——
Mr. BIGGS. Great. Thank you.
Commander FRAVOR. Yes, I would agree with the previous two,
being a user of those training ranges, that the data has to be out