Official hearing transcript PDF (mirror)

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have direct knowledge yourself about ATs—advanced tech-
nologies—that the U.S. Government has?
Mr. GRUSCH. Based on conventional advanced tech I was briefed
to the preponderance of the Defense Department’s both space and
aerospace compartmented programs. Yes.
Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Do you have knowledge, or do you have reason
to believe, that there are programs in the advanced tech space that
are unsanctioned?
Mr. GRUSCH. Yes, I do.
Mr. MOSKOWITZ. OK. And when you say that they are above con-
gressional oversight what do you mean?
Mr. GRUSCH. A complicated question. So, there is, you know,
some—I would call it abuse here. So, congressional oversight of
conventional Special Access Programs—and I will use Title 10,
DoD as an example, right.
So, 10 U.S. Code Section 119 discusses congressional oversight of
SAPs, discusses the DEP/SecDef’s ability to waive congressional re-
porting. However, the Gang of 8 is at least supposed to be notified
if a—you know, a waived or a waive bigoted unacknowledged SAP
is created and that is public law.
Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Well, so then how does—I mean, I do not want
to cut you off, but how does a program like that get funded?
Mr. GRUSCH. I will give you generalities. I can get very specific
in a closed session. But misappropriation of funds and self-fund.
Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Does that mean that there is money in the
budget that is set to go to a program, but it does not, and it goes
to something else?
Mr. GRUSCH. Yes. I have specific knowledge of that. Yes.
Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Do you think U.S. corporations are overcharging
for certain tech they are selling to the U.S. Government and that
additional money is going to programs?
Mr. GRUSCH. Correct, through something called IR&D.
Mr. MOSKOWITZ. OK. Satellite imagery—let us talk about sat-
ellite imagery. We have satellites all over the place, some that we
are aware of and many that we are not aware of, right. We are tak-
ing pictures of everything at every point and second.
Mr. Grusch, are you aware—do you have direct knowledge, or
have you talked to people with direct knowledge, that there are
satellite imagery of these events?
Mr. GRUSCH. That was one of my primary tasks at NGA since
we process, exploit, and disseminate that kind of information. I
have seen multiple cases, some of which to my understanding—
and, of course, I left NGA in April so that is my information cutoff
date.
But I personally review both what we call overhead collection
and from other strategic and tactical platforms that were—I could
not even explain prosaically, and I have a degree in physics, by the
way, as well. And I had—I am aware that you guys have not seen
these reports, unfortunately and I do not know why.
Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Do you have direct knowledge, or have you spo-
ken to people with direct knowledge, that this imagery applies to
crash sites—crash imagery?
Mr. GRUSCH. I cannot discuss that in an open session.