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Official hearing transcript PDF (mirror)

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This is the official transcript of a July 26, 2023 hearing held by the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability's Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs, titled "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena: Implications on National Security, Public Safety, and Government Transparency." Witnesses Ryan Graves, David Grusch and retired Commander David Fravor testified under oath. Members pressed for transparency, and Graves described a near midair encounter with a cube inside a clear sphere.

  • p. 6 …Congress should work to ensure that knowledge is not driven by fear. Today, we are not…
  • p. 8 …We need to tell the folks at the Pentagon they work for us, daggum it. We…
  • p. 9 …In being an active-duty service member working on an airfield, I have had conversations with…
  • p. 11 …I am proud to say that this hearing builds upon bipartisan work by Members of the…
  • p. 12 …I want to thank, obviously, committee staff and their staff work- ing on this on a…
  • p. 13 …And, finally, retired Navy Commander David Fravor, squadron leader who worked as a naval aviator for…
  • p. 18 …They work with Leslie Keane, who is present today, Ralph Blumenthal and Helene Cooper to publish…
  • p. 20 …If you had one, you captured one, you reverse engineered it, you got it to work…
  • p. 21 …And so can you just briefly—you mentioned that you are working with 30 pilots right…
  • p. 22 …be an outcome that this Committee can work on. Is there anything else just for the…
  • p. 23 19 particularly by the 30 folks that you are working with, are essen- tially outside the…
  • p. 27 …To your knowledge, are NHIs working with adversarial foreign governments in either technology exchange programs or…
  • p. 29 …Grusch, as a result of your previous govern- ment work, have you met with people with…
  • p. 32 …marketplaces, and I think NASA’s work, as they work to identify and highlight specific parameters…
  • p. 33 …I have been working with the American Institute of Aero- nautics and Astronautics to help them…
  • p. 35 …hammered, but seems like it does not work the other way, right. Mr. BURCHETT. If you…
  • p. 40 …a theo- retical framework at least to work off to kind of espouse crashes. Regardless of…
  • p. 41 …did not have a FLIR system that worked. Here is what he said. They were out…
  • p. 45 …Got a Master’s from Univer- sity of Houston and I have worked in the private…
  • p. 48 …Do you have any personal knowledge of someone who has possibly been injured working on legacy…
  • p. 50 …we had at the entrance to our working area. One of these objects was completely stationary…
  • p. 51 47 exact entrance to our working areas, not only geographically but also altitude. So, it was…
  • p. 52 …I do want to thank the Committee staff on both sides for the amount of work…
  • p. 53 …the broader issue as it relates to working with our Republican counterparts on this Committee. I…
  • p. 54 …I need to compliment the folks in my office that did a lot of the work…
7
Now, we have incidents when sensors, sometimes even multiple
types of sensors, detect things that we cannot explain. UAPs, what-
ever they may be, may pose a serious threat to our military or civil-
ian aircraft and that must be understood.
Now, my career and training as a longtime and career educator
and teacher and researcher tell me that we should never rule any-
thing out. We know that our space, of course, is vast and undis-
covered.
I also want to note that Mr. Sean Kirkpatrick, Director of the
All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, the component of the DoD
office that investigates UAP data, has testified before the Senate
this year that his unit has found no evidence of extraterrestrial ac-
tivity.
NASA has also stated they do not have evidence of extra-
terrestrial life either and we have heard this, of course, from some
of our government agencies. And we should remind viewers and
witnesses, which I think is really important, that we also cannot
share classified information in public settings.
But questions, of course, remain that people want to see data
and information for themselves. The enormous interest in the hear-
ing today underscores the importance of a fair and open look at the
evidence from witnesses who can share their unique perspectives.
Now, I know I certainly have a lot of questions. I know that all
the Members of our Committee do as well. We should come to this
hearing with an open mind, and we should not let our existing
ideas restrict us on either side.
I hear over and over from many agencies the stigma around re-
porting and investigating UAPs prevents us from getting real an-
swers. We know that whistleblowers have reported harassment, in-
timidation, or stigma as well and this is not acceptable.
If people cannot report incidents which would have national secu-
rity or safety implications, then that also has serious consequences
for us.
As Ranking Member of this Subcommittee, I know my job would
be completely impossible if whistleblowers or others feel intimi-
dated to come before this Committee. We cannot be afraid of asking
questions and we cannot be afraid of the truth.
I am proud to say that this hearing builds upon bipartisan work
by Members of the House and Senate dating many years back
which is sought to increase awareness within the Department of
Defense and more—and to mandate more of Congress of UAPs.
We know the Senate is taking up an amendment to their defense
authorization bill which will create a commission with broad de-
classification authority, and we should all agree that that is an im-
portant step.
Members of both parties and senior officials in multiple adminis-
trations have taken an interest in this issue and we are proud to
carry and build that confidence in the American people.
This hearing will also not be the end of the discussion but a new
chapter and start to years and years of work that many folks both
in the public and within government have been working on. We
should encourage more reporting, not less, on UAPs. The more that
we understand, the safer we will be.

Cases discussed

About this file

Hearing transcript, cited by the archive. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 54 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.