I ~ l •, I'
12'"'''., ...'k{ •
mo.me i
-thos
been
ry of
;,t the
added
_, very
.tions~
burnt
where
~d to
been
their
:icked
r:1ings
jesty's
le of
The
easing
r, and
·ld the
from
e not
hlings,
{have
is, but
urbing
pretty
le told
I am
~pared
d that
ts are
)Se the
ndings
could
people
, is to
1ent at
like to
e will
1d the
sibility
about
ss the
i go a
d by a
t there
1e way
United
'to see
UFOs.
ter and
Is, and
to the
1253 Unidentified [ 18 JANUARY 1979] Flying Objects 1254
public. Finally, I should like to thank as I say, that these unexplained sightings
your Lordships for your kind attention, could be-and, indeed, would be-ex-
and 1 beg to move for Papers. plained, if we had more knov.·Iedgc about
them; for example, better photographs.
How many ciear photographs of UFOs
have yo:1r Lordships seea? Alii have seen
are hazy, fudgy pho~ogi·aphs which could,
or co11Id not, be genuine.
7.29 p.m.
Lord TREFGARNE: My Lords, I am
bound to say that I face making this
spee<;h with some trepidation. I bad
wondered whether we could j:!stify the
holding of what is in eiTcct a full deb'-l.lc
on tills matter; but having seen the
audience we have tonight, and indeed
having heard the speech of the no~ie Earl,
Lord Clancarty, I can see that that so;·t
of thought would not go down too well.
I may v.:ell be shouted down before I finish
anyway, but let us see if we can avoid that
right }!t the start.
The noble Earl asked us in his Motion to
support a proposal particularly for an
intra-governmental study-I suppose he
means, as indeed he has described,
between Governments. No doubt he
would wish to see the co-operation of the
United States. But I should not want to
support that kind of proposal. I do not
think the time has yet come when we can
view this matter with sufficient certainty
to justify the expenditure of public
money on it.
I certainly agree that the numerous
\roluntary bodies, including those with
f.\vhich the noble Earl is associat~d, ought
to be encouraged, and indeed I should not
/d be opposed to infon:1al links between
j those bodies-or, at least the re~ponsiblc
l ones-and others, such as the Ministry
l of Defence. But I am ashamed to say,
in the midst of all this faith, that I am not
myself a believer in UFOs described, as
I believe they are, as objects or vehicles
from another planet or from another
universe.
I have some 2,500 hours as a pilot.
I have flown across the atlantic a few
times as a pilot. But, unlike with the
aircraft reported by the noble Earl, I
have never seen one. I presume-indeed,
I believe-that a good many of the
sightings can be explained by logical
scientific theory and I am, so far at least,
convinced that those that cannot so far
be so explained could be, if our knowledge
were more advanced or if we had more
information about the sightings in question.
It is these unexplained sightings upon
which ufologists rely so heavily in asking
us to accept their theories. But I believe,
Ufologists often rely upon radar infor-
m<l.tion for evidence in their case, but I
must tel.l your Lordships th~t radar plays
more tncks even tkm the camera, and I
do not believe thc:t rad2tr info;rnation in
this con~ext! is •:aEd. For example, 'the
recent s1ghtmgs m New Ze<lland, which
were widely reported just before Christmas
including so~~ n:;ther strange-looking
photographs. wmch appeai·ed on television,
were al.so sa1d t? have ~~en confirmed by
radar mformat10n wlucn was available
to the aircraft in question. But I know
from my own experience that radar is
frequently used, and, ind<:;;d, is so designed,
for detecting anomalies in atmospheric
conditions :!nd in we::;.thtr patterns, and
I am not persuaded that radar is a valid
supporting argument in this case.
Since time immemorial, man has as-
cribed t!10se phenomena that he could not
explain to some supernatural or extra-
terrestrial agents. Ev~ntually, as scientific
wisdom has advanced, these phenomena
are understood more fully, until now
today, no one takes witchcraft seriously
and there are no fairies at the bottom
of my &arden. .It is not so long ago that
magnetism, as It occurs naturally in the
form of lodestone, was thought to be the
I.work of the Devil, as indeed were some of
the hot springs found in Iceland, Australia
and elsewhere.
I An eclipse of the sun or the moon
· now fully understood, was once thought
t<? be an expression of. the Almighty's
displeasure. Perhaps this derives from
the description in the Gospels of the events
following the Crucifixion. I recall the
44th and 45th verses of the 23rd chapter
of St. Luke's Gospel, and I shall read
it ifl may: -
" And it was about the sixth hour, and there
was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth
hour.
And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the
temple vvas rent in the midst ".
St. Matthew described it rather well aiso:
. "A~d, behold, the veil of the temple was ·rent
m twam from the top to the bottom· and the
earth did quake, and the rocks rent". '
,.;.
''
·--' ('