Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
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45 Ms. MACE. And in the UAP space? That is all that—they would not do submerged? Mr. ELIZONDO. No, I did not say that ma’am. Ms. MACE. OK. Mr. ELIZONDO. Lockheed Martin and others do quite a bit of work both in our atmosphere, in space, and even underwater. There are certain efforts to—it is a tough question you are asking. You are putting me on the spot here. Ms. MACE. I’m asking—I’m looking for the answer. Mr. ELIZONDO. Yes, ma’am. No, they are involved in a lot. I would rather let Lockheed Martin explain the different domains that they are involved with. I am—— Ms. MACE. Uh-huh. Mr. ELIZONDO [continuing]. Probably not authorized to discuss that. But they are involved in a lot of different areas and domains. Ms. MACE. Admiral, flight safety risks for our pilots, based on what you have experienced and seen in your career? Dr. GALLAUDET. They are extensive. In the one exercise I referred to where I received the email that was then deleted was, the pilots—and this is worth bringing out. There are debunkers out there who have said the ‘‘Go Fast’’ video was just a balloon. That was only one video that was released. There were dozens of these encounters that pilots, friends of Ryan Graves, who is in this room right here, witnessed and caused sig- nificant safety concerns. And to almost call out an exercise and shut it down, which is very compressed and the carrier is getting ready for deployment and the pilots have to get certified to land on a carrier, it is ex- treme, to say the least. Ms. MACE. All right. I have two last questions. Real quickly, Mr. Shellenberger, how do we get more whistle- blowers to come forward? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Well, this hearing, you know, is very im- portant. And, obviously, you know, I cannot encourage whistle- blowers to obtain information, but I can guarantee that I will pro- tect them and go to prison to protect their identities—— Ms. MACE. OK. Mr. SHELLENBERGER [continuing]. If they come to me. Ms. MACE. Yes, sir. OK, my last question. The first hearing we had on this, I had never been briefed on UAPs or what they were—biologics, nonhuman, et cetera. How would you define, each of you—my last question—how would you define nonhuman biologics, nonhuman intelligence? What are we actually talking about? Admiral? And we will go down the line. Dr. GALLAUDET. I do not think it is a stretch, when you look at the diversity of life on this planet and the size of this universe, to think that there would be more diverse, higher-order, nonhuman intelligence throughout the universe, and that is probably what is visiting us.
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.