Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
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41 surveillance, and reconnaissance—and other types of equities and technologies to prep the battlespace. And, certainly, you know, if I was wearing my national security hat, even if there was a two-percent chance that there was some sort of hostile intent here, that is two percent higher than we real- ly can accept. And so, we must figure out—there is a calculus, capabilities versus intent, in order to identify if something is a national secu- rity threat. We have seen some of the capabilities, yet we have no idea on the intent. And so, this is why this discussion is somewhat, I think, problematic from a governmental perspective, because we have no idea. Mr. TIMMONS. Sure. Thank you. Mr. Shellenberger, you are particularly familiar with the Langley Air Force Base incident a year ago? Are you familiar? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Just from what I read in the news. Mr. TIMMONS. Just from what you have read? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Yes. Mr. TIMMONS. I would imagine a large percentage of the Amer- ican population became aware of that with the Wall Street Journal article. Would you agree with that? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Yes. Mr. TIMMONS. And were you aware of that incident prior to the Wall Street Journal article? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. No. Mr. TIMMONS. To the rest of the panel, was the Wall Street Jour- nal article the first time that y’all were made aware of what was essentially an over–2-week UAP frenzy over Langley Air Force Base? Were y’all aware of this prior to the Wall Street Journal arti- cle? Anybody. A show of hands. Dr. GALLAUDET. Yes, sir. Mr. TIMMONS. Yes, Dr. Gallaudet. Could you give me your—how did you become aware of it? Dr. GALLAUDET. Well, a colleague of mine, who I referenced pre- viously, Chris Mellon, he wrote an extensive article about this, that there were other incursions of drones over Langley before this, as well as many, many military installations over the last five dec- ades. Mr. TIMMONS. And it is my understanding that there has been an ever-increasing-in-number and—I am trying to think how to say this, because I wear two different hats. I am still in the Air Force. So, I mean, it seems that they are becoming increasingly brash. And the question that we really have to figure out is, is it China or is it nonhuman? And I think that is the biggest question the American people want to know. If it is China, it is scary because they have a lot of technology that we cannot explain. And if it is nonhuman, that is scary be- cause we do not know the intent. Would you say that’s fair? Dr. GALLAUDET. Yes, Congressman. And, in fact, I really believe that we should use this hearing as a catalyst to improve and bolster our air defense capabilities and our maritime domain awareness capabilities, because obviously
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.