Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
“The Times”27 pages
39 Mr. BURLISON. OK. My question to you then is, if we were in a secure setting, if we were in a SCIF, would you be able to provide or get access to something, whether it is visuals or material that we could put our hands on, or biologics, that would convince me, that would show me that we have nonhuman origins? Mr. ELIZONDO. Sir, that decision would not be mine. That would be to the gatekeepers still in the U.S. Government. Mr. BURLISON. And who would we—so, if you were in our shoes, where would you go from here? How would you get that informa- tion? How would—where is—you know, a lot of times we just don’t know who to ask, because we do not know where to go next. So, if you were in our shoes, where would you go? Mr. ELIZONDO. Well, I prefer to answer that question in a closed session. However, we established AARO for that very purpose. And, unfortunately, under its previous leadership, it failed. So, one would hope that they would have the authorities necessary to do that. Let us hope that this new iteration of leadership will be suc- cessful. Mr. BURLISON. In the discussions, it is simply about material? Or is there discussion about—it was previously testified that there was biologics that were collected. Are you aware of any of that? Mr. ELIZONDO. I am, sir, aware of the reporting that biologics have been recovered. Again, my focus was more nuts and bolts, looking at the physical aspects of these phenomenon, how they interacted around military equities and nuclear equities. So, I am certainly not a medical expert. I would not be able to probably provide you a whole lot of value in that, simply because I do not have the expertise. Mr. BURLISON. But was anything described as that we have pos- session of bodies? Mr. ELIZONDO. Yes. Yes, sir. Mr. BURLISON. Is it multiple types of creatures? Or—— Mr. ELIZONDO. Sir, I could not answer that. I can tell you anecdotally that it was discussed quite a bit when I was at the Pentagon. The problem is, the supposed collection of these biologi- cal samples occurred before my time, in fact before I was even born. Mr. BURLISON. And was this part of the Lockheed Martin discus- sion? Or was this completely—the biologics—was it completely sep- arate? Mr. ELIZONDO. Separate yet related. Mr. BURLISON. OK. Has anyone made contact? Mr. ELIZONDO. Sir, I am sorry, could you specify—— Mr. BURLISON. Has there been any, to your knowledge, any com- munication with a nonhuman life form? Mr. ELIZONDO. So, the term ‘‘communication’’ is a bit of a trick word, because there is verbal communication like we are having now; the problem is, you also have nonverbal communication. And so, I would say definitively yes, but from a nonverbal— meaning, when a Russian reconnaissance aircraft comes into U.S. airspace, we scramble two F–22s, and we are certainly commu- nicating intent and capability.
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.