Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
“The Times”27 pages
36 Dr. GALLAUDET. That is accurate, sir. Mr. BIGGS. And even during weekly meetings, it was never dis- cussed again. My question for you is—you were in those meetings. Did you per- sonally hear that nothing was going on about that? Dr. GALLAUDET. Yes, sir, I was in those meetings. And—— Mr. BIGGS. Did you make inquiries about that? Dr. GALLAUDET. No, I did not, sir, because I inferred, since I had been read in to other special access programs, that this UAP video was part of one that I was not read in to, or any of the recipients or the author of the email, and that an intelligence agency basi- cally pulled it back and instructed the author of the email, ‘‘Hey, this is—you just conducted what they call ’spillage’ into a lower classification level.’’ And when that is done, the procedures are ba- sically to remove any of the communications. Mr. BIGGS. You are going to silo it. So, Mr. Elizondo, you said in your report and your testimony today, ‘‘Government work on UAP subjects still remains classified. Excessive secrecy has led to grave misdeeds against loyal civil serv- ants, military personnel, and the public—all to hide the fact that we are not alone in the cosmos.’’ Fair? Mr. ELIZONDO. Yes, sir. Mr. BIGGS. All right. And all of you—and, Mr. Shellenberger—by the way, I have read several of your books, Mr. Shellenberger. Excellent stuff. Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Thank you. Mr. BIGGS. What I would say, too, is: You were asked about the veracity of the author of this report. Are you comfortable with the veracity? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Yes. Mr. BIGGS. OK. And then—and I will get to you in a second, Mr. Gold. We will talk about Kuhnian and Lakatosian scientific advancement and our obviating that through these processes. But we will get to that in a sec. Because what I want to really get to is, the ultimate question really becomes this: For what purpose is the Federal Government overclassifying—because that is what they are doing; they are overclassifying—and forbidding the public from getting access to this? And if you know, if you have an explanation, I am curious. Be- cause I know what I have been told. I just want to know from your perspective, why do they overclassify? Mr. Elizondo, you look like you are finger-on-the-button, ready to go. Mr. ELIZONDO. Yes, sir. Forgive me. I think there are several reasons. I think at the time when this first—this reality became evident to the U.S. Government, we were in the middle of a cold war with then-Soviet Union, and we did not want to tip our hands to what our knowledge base was on this topic. We did not want to broadcast that to the community. Mr. BIGGS. The cold war is long over. Mr. ELIZONDO. It is, sir. It is, sir.
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.