Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
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31 Mr. GOLD. I mean, I think probably the vast majority of UAP are drones, experimental aircraft, weather conditions. Which is, again, why I say, if we reviewed the data, I think we are going to discover a lot about things we were not even thinking about. But there is a percentage that is not. And looking into those anomalies is how discoveries will be made. And relative to science, Congressman, if I can say, when NASA studies black holes, when NASA studies galaxies, we have instru- ments that are tailored to do so. With UAP, we are using cockpit gun cameras or cell phones. We could never do good science with that. And let me tell you, the NASA budget is under pressure. We need to make sure that the Artemis program is funded fully. We need to beat China to the Moon and maintain our presence in low Earth orbit. So, NASA would need more money to do this. But I think tailored instruments that would look at UAP, in the same way that we have tailored instruments to look at astronom- ical data, is important to gathering valuable and uniform informa- tion. If we were studying black holes by using fighter cockpit cameras, we probably would not know that much about black holes. Mr. FROST. Huh. A hundred percent. Well, I think it is important that Federal leaders take the nec- essary steps to ensure that UAP does not pose threats to the Amer- ican public as well and that we have the necessary budgets to col- lect this data so we can actually see what is going on. And I am fully supportive of funding the Artemis mission. I think it is very important. Also, a personal note: The pilot is a frat brother of mine. He is a member of the Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Incorporated. And so, I would love to see my fraternity make it to the Moon. Mr. GOLD. But Redwire is building the cameras for Artemis, so we will take some pictures of your frat brother and get them to you. Mr. FROST. There we go. Thank you so much. I yield back. Ms. MACE. Thank you. I will now recognize Mrs. Luna for 5 minutes of questioning. Mrs. LUNA. Mr. Elizondo, to your knowledge, can you name the country and around timeframe that the first back-engineered UAP program started? Mr. ELIZONDO. Ma’am, unfortunately, I would not be able to have that conversation in public. Mrs. LUNA. Can anyone on the panel name that? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. I cannot. Mrs. LUNA. None of you? OK. This next question is for Mr. Gallaudet. To your knowledge, have any USOs ever outpaced our sub- marines? Dr. GALLAUDET. Yes, ma’am. Mrs. LUNA. At what magnitude? Dr. GALLAUDET. I do not have the exact speed, but, again, a wit- ness came to me—a credible former submarine officer who observed it on sonar data. And this was in the 1980s in the North Atlantic
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.