Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
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28 Mr. SHELLENBERGER. The author’s sources are described in the report—these data bases, the Immaculate Constellation pro- gram—— Mr. HIGGINS. All right. But you expressed some confidence in the sources—— Mr. SHELLENBERGER. I would. Mr. HIGGINS [continuing]. Earlier in testimony. Mr. SHELLENBERGER. I do. Mr. HIGGINS. You expressed confidence. So, do you know those sources? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. I do. Mr. HIGGINS. Are they within the Department of Defense? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. I cannot say. Mr. HIGGINS. You cannot say or you will not say? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. I will not say. Mr. HIGGINS. OK. Why not? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Because I protect my sources, and I think the—— Mr. HIGGINS. But you are not naming them. It is a big depart- ment. Many of us on my side of the aisle would say it is far too big. So, you are talking about the Department of Defense, sources from within the Department of Defense? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. I am uncomf—I am not willing to re- duce—— Mr. HIGGINS. OK. Mr. SHELLENBERGER [continuing]. The potential universe of my— where my sources might be. Mr. HIGGINS. OK. Moving on, in this report, Mr. Elizondo, for reference, several types of allegedly alien craft or possibly alien craft or unknown AARO phenomena, what we used to call UFOs, are described— spheres and orbs, disks and saucers, oval or Tic Tac, triangular shape, boomerang and arrowhead, and irregular or organic. Mr. Elizondo, does that summarize to you the types of craft that we are discussing today? Mr. ELIZONDO. Sir, that is the general morphology, historical speaking, of many UAPs—— Mr. HIGGINS. OK. So, those descriptions are very different craft. Is it your assessment that they would come of different origins? Mr. ELIZONDO. It is possible, but this also could be a matter of utility. And let me just state for the record, I never read the report that—or the article that Mr. Shellenberger put out. The reason is—— Mr. HIGGINS. That is a good point. We are just referencing it—— Mr. ELIZONDO. Yes, sir. Mr. HIGGINS [continuing]. For descriptive purposes for the Amer- ican people. Mr. Shellenberger, in this report, it is striking to me that, re- garding the descriptions of experiences with these various craft, several of them include biological effects and several do not. Are you familiar with what I am talking about? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Yes.
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.