Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
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24 thing that can enter into U.S. airspace, completely with no attribu- tion—— Mr. GROTHMAN. And how long has this been going on? Mr. ELIZONDO. Sir, decades. And there is information that will hopefully be entered into the record at some point. Mr. GROTHMAN. Can you think of any possible reason why they cannot release any information they have on something, say, 15 or 20 years old? Mr. ELIZONDO. Sir, if I could echo my colleague here, Admiral Gallaudet, I think one of the big issues that we have in the intel- ligence community and Department of Defense is we do not want to broadcast any potential vulnerabilities or weaknesses in our na- tional defense systems or in our intelligence collection platforms. Therefore, when you have a conversation where you address a problem for which there is no solution, it makes that a very uncom- fortable conversation to have. Mr. GROTHMAN. OK. We will switch to Mr. Shellenberger. The primary reason you are here today is because you published an article on the news publication that you own—called Public, right?—alleging that a new, unnamed government whistleblower has come forward asserting that a highly classified program exists dedicated to recovery and reverse engineering of UAP technologies. Can you give us what specific evidence you have or that your source provided you to substantiate the claims about the existence of the Immaculate Constellation program? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Well, you have the report in front of you now, so you can see it for yourself. But I checked the report, and I did not find it based on existing cases; it was new cases for me. At least, I had not found anybody—so that solved—that answered for me that it was not obviously circular reporting, which is one of the big concerns in this space. I also had the name of the program confirmed by more than one additional source. So—yes. And then, of course, I checked to make sure that the source was who they claimed to be. Mr. GROTHMAN. OK. Mr. SHELLENBERGER. I should also say that when I said before it was this data base, it is a much broader program than that. It also includes human intelligence and then, as you mentioned, the retrieval and the—— Mr. GROTHMAN. Any knowledge of what country these things originated in? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. No. No, I have no idea. Mr. GROTHMAN. OK. Ms. MACE. OK. I will now recognize Mr. Burchett for 5 minutes of questions. Mr. BURCHETT. Thanks, Chairlady. I request unanimous consent to enter into the record documents provided to us regarding legacy UAP programs and psychological operations, Lue Elizondo. Ms. MACE. So, ordered. Mr. BURCHETT. I also want to thank my buddy Jeremy Corbell for providing these documents and access to some whistleblowers.
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.