Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
“The Times”27 pages
20 Ms. MACE. OK. Thank you. I have 8 seconds. Mr. Gold, did the NASA independent study team get briefed on what you call AAWSAP? Very quickly. Mr. GOLD. I flagged the Advanced Airspace Weapon Systems Ap- plications Program to our Chair and our DFO. We did not get briefed. But I believe it is definitely worth looking into. That was probably the largest UAP review effort ever and I think produced a lot of interest data—including revealing Nimitz. I do not know if my fellow witness might want to—he did yeoman’s work on it— might want to comment. Ms. MACE. OK. All right. I am going to turn to Mr. Moskowitz, who will be recog- nized for 5 minutes of questioning. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. So, Mr. Gold, you gave a whole diatribe for a couple of minutes about UAPs, science, data collection, stigma. A lot of non-believers in all of this would just ask a very simple question. Why? Why is it so hard, right? Like, why are people, any time they ask, why are they always thwarted? Why are they always judged? Why do they always have misinformation spread? Why is there always retribu- tion? Why is it always met with inure? What is the why? If it does not exist, why is it such a problem? Mr. GOLD. I think if you go through the history of science, Rep- resentative, it is always difficult for breakthroughs and new infor- mation regardless of whether it is UAP or any other kind of dis- covery. In science, we are supposed to be open, but when you break with the orthodoxy of what is believed, whether it is Galileo saying that the Earth does not rotate or the Earth rotates around the sun or the sun does not rotate around the Earth, it is always challenging for new beliefs. And the more extraordinary those discoveries, the more extraordinary those new beliefs, it is very difficult. So, I think this is natural. There is natural conservatism when it comes to science, but this issue in particular has been very dif- ficult where, again, even to attempt to study it becomes problem- atic. But every hearing like this, every news report, every video docu- mentary—I was privileged to be part of something Dan Farrow was putting together. I think many of us have interviewed for it, docu- menting 30 different government officials, every brick in the wall will help get us closer to getting to the truth. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. I appreciate that. Mr. Elizondo—do I have that correct? Mr. ELIZONDO. Sir. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. I am a recovering lawyer, so I am going to put my hat on for a second. You said you signed a document. Love that. Who gave that to you? Mr. ELIZONDO. The U.S. Government, sir. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. OK. Do you have a copy of it? Mr. ELIZONDO. It is stored in the SCIF right now. I do not have possession of it. The U.S. Government does. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. What department of the U.S. Government gave you this document?
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.