Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the printed transcript of a July 26, 2023 hearing before the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability's Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs, chaired by Rep. Glenn Grothman. Ryan Graves, David Grusch and retired Navy Commander David Fravor testified on unidentified anomalous phenomena. Members pressed for transparency, whistleblower protection and better pilot reporting. Graves described a near mid-air collision with a dark cube inside a clear sphere off the Eastern Seaboard.
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44 Mr. GRUSCH. By external observation, sure, that could be a fair assessment. Yes. Commander FRAVOR. Yes. Mr. OGLES. Is there any indication the Department of Energy is involved in UAP data collection and housing? Mr. GRAVES. I do not have an answer. Mr. GRUSCH. I cannot confirm or deny that in a public setting. Mr. OGLES. Could you do it in a secure setting? Mr. GRUSCH. Yes. Mr. OGLES. Mr. Fravor? Commander FRAVOR. No, I do not know. Mr. OGLES. Mr. Chairman, you know, I think I am the last Mem- ber to go. But there clearly is a threat to the national security of the United States of America. As Members of Congress, we have a responsibility to maintain oversight and be aware of these activi- ties so that, if appropriate, we take action. I would encourage the Chairman to demand that we have any and all, but in particular Mr. Grusch, talk to us in a SCIF and if that access is denied I will personally volunteer to initiate the Hol- man Rule against any personnel or any program or any agency that denies access to Congress. Mr. Chairman, with that, I will yield the remainder of my time to my fellow colleague from Tennessee, Mr. Burchett. Mr. BURCHETT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Ogles, for the great questions, brother. Mr. Grusch, I might have asked this before but I want to make sure. Do you have any personal knowledge of someone who has possibly been injured working on legacy UAP reverse engineering? Mr. GRUSCH. Yes. Mr. BURCHETT. OK. How were they injured? Was it —is it something like a radioactive type situation or something we did not understand? I have heard people talk about Havana syndrome type incidences. What was your recollection of that? Mr. GRUSCH. I cannot get into specifics, but you can imagine as- sessing an unknown unknown there is a lot of potentialities you cannot fully prepare for. Mr. BURCHETT. How do you think we ought to handle UAP whis- tleblower complaints like yours in the future? Mr. GRUSCH. Yes. There was some issue with mine. So, you know, PPD–19 process it goes to the intel committees either through PPD–19 or ICD 120. There is not a good way for the intelligence community Inspector General to provide that to other committees, and I asked my infor- mation to be sent to the House and Senate Armed Services Com- mittee because there are Title 10 equities at play. But there was no smooth process to do so. Mr. BURCHETT. It is a trashcan. Are you aware of any individuals that are participating in reverse engineering programs for non- terrestrial craft? Mr. GRUSCH. Personally, yes. Mr. BURCHETT. Do you know any that would be willing to testify if there were protections for them?
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 54 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.