Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the printed transcript of a July 26, 2023 hearing before the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability's Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs, chaired by Rep. Glenn Grothman. Ryan Graves, David Grusch and retired Navy Commander David Fravor testified on unidentified anomalous phenomena. Members pressed for transparency, whistleblower protection and better pilot reporting. Graves described a near mid-air collision with a dark cube inside a clear sphere off the Eastern Seaboard.
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30 Burchett and Ms. Luna for leading this hearing. And with that, I yield my 5 minutes to Mr. Burchett. Mr. BURCHETT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am going to direct this, I believe, to Mr. Grusch. But if any of you all feel like you need to jump in just jump right in. We are good. Has the U.S. Government become aware of actual evidence of ex- traterrestrial or otherwise unexplained forms of intelligence and, if so, when do you think this first occurred? Mr. GRUSCH. I like to use the term nonhuman. I do not like to denote origin. Keeps the aperture open both scientifically. Cer- tainly, like I have discussed publicly, previously 1930’s. Mr. BURCHETT. OK. Can you give me the names and titles of the people with direct firsthand knowledge and access to some of this crash retrieval—some of these crash retrieval programs and maybe which facilities, military bases, that would—the recovered material would be in? And I know a lot of Congress talked about we are going to go to Area 51 and, you know, there is nothing there anymore anyway. It is just—you know, and we move like a glacier, as soon as we an- nounce it, I am sure the moving vans have pulled up. But please? Mr. GRUSCH. I cannot discuss that publicly, but I did provide that information both to the intel committees and the Inspector General. Mr. BURCHETT. And we could get that in the SCIF if we were al- lowed to get in a SCIF with you? Would that be probably what you would think? Mr. GRUSCH. Sure, if you had the appropriate accesses. Yes. Mr. BURCHETT. What Special Access Programs cover this infor- mation and how is it possible that they have evaded oversight for so long? Mr. GRUSCH. I do know the names. Once again, I cannot discuss that publicly in how they have evaded oversight. In a closed set- ting, I can tell you the specific tradecraft used. Mr. BURCHETT. All right. When do you think those programs began and who authorized them? Mr. GRUSCH. I do know a lot of that information, but that is something I can discuss publicly because of sensitivities. Mr. BURCHETT. All right. If any of you all want to jump in on any of this, you are more than welcome to. What level of security clearance is required to fully access these programs? Mr. GRUSCH. Well, anybody who has—— Mr. BURCHETT. And I say that because myself, Representative Gaetz and Representative Luna were basically turned away at one point at Eglin. So, please go right ahead. Mr. GRUSCH. Certainly, a difference between Member access and, say, somebody like me, but anybody who has a, you know, TS/SCI clearance and meets the eligibility criteria. The access adjudicative authority should be able to grant you access. Mr. GAETZ. Mr. Burchett, if you will yield. So, just to be—put a fine point on that there is nothing that you are aware of that is above Special Access Program classification?
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 54 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.