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Hearing 53-022 short link

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This is the printed record of a July 26, 2023 hearing of the House Oversight and Accountability Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs, published by the U.S. Government Publishing Office as Serial No. 118-53. Witnesses Ryan Graves, David Grusch and retired Commander David Fravor testified about unidentified anomalous phenomena. Members pressed for government transparency, criticized AARO's classified budget and stigma against reporting, and Graves described a near miss with a dark cube inside a clear sphere.

  • p. 6 …Congress should work to ensure that knowledge is not driven by fear. Today, we are not…
  • p. 8 …We need to tell the folks at the Pentagon they work for us, daggum it. We…
  • p. 9 …In being an active-duty service member working on an airfield, I have had conversations with…
  • p. 11 …I am proud to say that this hearing builds upon bipartisan work by Members of the…
  • p. 12 …I want to thank, obviously, committee staff and their staff work- ing on this on a…
  • p. 13 …And, finally, retired Navy Commander David Fravor, squadron leader who worked as a naval aviator for…
  • p. 18 …They work with Leslie Keane, who is present today, Ralph Blumenthal and Helene Cooper to publish…
  • p. 20 …If you had one, you captured one, you reverse engineered it, you got it to work…
  • p. 21 …And so can you just briefly—you mentioned that you are working with 30 pilots right…
  • p. 22 …be an outcome that this Committee can work on. Is there anything else just for the…
  • p. 23 19 particularly by the 30 folks that you are working with, are essen- tially outside the…
  • p. 27 …To your knowledge, are NHIs working with adversarial foreign governments in either technology exchange programs or…
  • p. 29 …Grusch, as a result of your previous govern- ment work, have you met with people with…
  • p. 32 …marketplaces, and I think NASA’s work, as they work to identify and highlight specific parameters…
  • p. 33 …I have been working with the American Institute of Aero- nautics and Astronautics to help them…
  • p. 35 …hammered, but seems like it does not work the other way, right. Mr. BURCHETT. If you…
  • p. 40 …a theo- retical framework at least to work off to kind of espouse crashes. Regardless of…
  • p. 41 …did not have a FLIR system that worked. Here is what he said. They were out…
  • p. 45 …Got a Master’s from Univer- sity of Houston and I have worked in the private…
  • p. 48 …Do you have any personal knowledge of someone who has possibly been injured working on legacy…
  • p. 50 …we had at the entrance to our working area. One of these objects was completely stationary…
  • p. 51 47 exact entrance to our working areas, not only geographically but also altitude. So, it was…
  • p. 52 …I do want to thank the Committee staff on both sides for the amount of work…
  • p. 53 …the broader issue as it relates to working with our Republican counterparts on this Committee. I…
  • p. 54 …I need to compliment the folks in my office that did a lot of the work…
6
it is transparent, and that it also provides appropriate answers as
our Oversight body always demands.
Now, it is really important that we are here in a bipartisan way
to have this conversation which really to the heart of it is about
national security and key to the Subcommittee’s core purpose.
This is the Subcommittee on National Security of the Oversight
Committee.
Now, our witnesses will testify today that UAPs have posed a se-
rious safety threat and we must understand this. More broadly, we
are dealing with real questions that get to the heart of our faith
in government.
Faith in our institutions, as we all know, is at an all-time low.
Partisanship and alternative facts make it too easy to doubt nar-
rative or our institutions. But this hearing will offer the public
unique perspectives, building on years of reporting by both Federal
agencies and the independent media.
Now, some of the earliest reporting on this issue was a
groundbreaking 2017 New York Times report which revealed re-
search as we know now on unidentified anomalous phenomena or
as many call UFOs by the Defense Intelligence Agency.
Mr. Graves and Commander Fravor’s experiences with UAPs
have also been documented by the public, not just by the New York
Times but CNN and many other national news outlets.
Now, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence has pub-
lished public reports documenting UAPs and on June 9, 2022,
NASA announced that the agency is commissioning a study to, of
course, examine unidentified anomalous phenomena.
Now, the sheer number of reports, whistleblowers, and stories of
unidentified anomalous phenomena should raise real questions and
warrant investigation and oversight and that is why we are here
today.
Now, pilots have reported encounters for years and because of
the stigma around reporting these incidents we still do not have a
complete picture of actually what is going on, particularly, as your
witnesses will testify, on the civilian side and that is a real prob-
lem that we have today in the country.
Now, it is very important that we show that Democrats and Re-
publicans in Congress can come together in a bipartisan way to cut
through misinformation and to look at the facts in a serious and
thoughtful manner.
If we are to advance oversight and public disclosure, we must
also gain the broad support of the public. We will succeed getting
facts out to the public faster if there is a broad public support as
part of the process.
Now, I understand fully the Department of Defense is hesitant
to share information that could also undermine our national secu-
rity by revealing information on the capabilities of our own aircraft,
our sensors, and other sensitive material.
At the same time, many people believe that we are withholding
information from them and that is dangerous also. I believe in
openness and transparency. That is also the role of Congress, and
I want to trust that the American people will be able to weigh the
evidence and make up their own minds.

Cases discussed

About this file

Hearing transcript, cited by the archive. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 54 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.